Human Resources

Can You Fire an Employee Over the Phone? (or by email?)

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One of the worst parts about being in a supervisory position is having to let an employee go. But sometimes newer managers wonder can you fire an employee over the phone?

As a general rule, legally, a manager can fire an employee over the phone or by email. But unless they are not showing up for work or answering calls, it is always considered more professional to let them go face to face.

But that’s just the beginning of how to handle letting go of an employee.

Believe me, no one likes firing someone; even the most hardened and cynical managers. But sometimes it’s just necessary. You’ve given them a fair amount of feedback, but they are still coming in late and their performance is lacking.

You’ve decided to fire them. But how do you go about it? Is it okay to do it by phone or email?

Keep reading to find out!

How do you fire an employee legally?

A manager can fire employees in-person, over the phone, via email, or via a letter that is mailed to an address, for anything that is not protected by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (think gender, race, pregnancy, and disability), particularly if they are an at-will employee. 

An at-will employee can be fired at any time, for any reason, with a few exceptions that would violate federal employment law, like discrimination.

(source)

In turn, at-will employees can quit at any time, without notice.

I go into a lot more details about what an at-will state is, including a state-by-state guide, in a recent article geared towards how to fire an employee with a bad attitude.

Just click the link to read it on my site.

Now, having said that, I firmly believe that employers have a moral obligation to be firm, fair, and consistent. And an obligation to make expectations and consequences crystal clear.

If you fire an employee and they are genuinely surprised, you failed as a leader.

First, you need to have a company policy guidebook in place which spells out all your company policies, including your attendance policy and expected workplace conduct.

The company policy guidebook should also include a disciplinary outline, so employees know what to expect if they violate any rules.

I discuss company policy guidebooks and go into more detail about how to handle disciplinary issues in this recent article about firing the office gossiper and this recent article about firing someone that calls in sick all the time.

Just click either link to read it on my site.

Can you fire someone over email?

Unless a company has an employment contract in place that stipulates policies and procedures for terminating an employee, or state law, there is no Federal restriction on emailing an employee to notify them of termination.

Almost all companies have some sort of termination policy in place.

So for most mid-level managers, you’ll be following your company’s HR directives. In most cases, that’s likely going to require you to at least attempt to meet with the employee face to face.

However, if you don’t have an HR department, or a policy when it comes to firing an employee, it can be tricky to know how to fire an employee.

Being on the receiving end of termination is painful. But finding out from something as impersonal as an email is even worse.

It’s also bad for morale.

Word will get around that you didn’t even have the decency to call John in before you fired him. This will have an impact on productivity and the ability to retain employees.

It shows that you don’t really care about your employees. And even if it’s just 1 person, all the other employees will be left thinking that if you didn’t care about John, then maybe you don’t care about them either.

Once that sinks into your team, productivity will drop as will their opinion of you. Not to mention the impact it’ll have on the reputation of the business.

When you fire someone over email, it’s there forever. Chances are, that employee will screenshot it and put it all over social media.

Are you ready to withstand that kind of backlash? As being the company that fires people over email?

Social media backlash can ruin a small business.

When is it OK to fire someone over the phone or via email?

It is legally on a Federal level to fire an employee over the phone or via email. But morally, the only time this is acceptable is if the employee works remotely several hours away, or if they haven’t been showing up for work repeatedly.

Seriously, don’t do this.

Your employees are human beings that deserve respect. Even if they were a terrible employee, you should always treat them with respect. They deserve the courtesy of being fired face-to-face.

An exception to this is if your employee is making it impossible to have that face-to-face meeting, as I mentioned above.

But even in this case, make a phone call. Ideally, they will answer as leaving on a voicemail isn’t great either. But don’t do it by email.

Email is too cavalier. There is no dialogue, and you have no control over when the employee will actually see the email.

If they won’t return calls and haven’t shown up repeatedly for scheduled shifts, at that point in most states it would be considered job abandonment. When that happens, there’s no longer really a need to fire them as they have essentially quit without notice.

So just document the attempts to contact them, the missed shifts and copies of the printed schedules for their shifts. Attach that to the paperwork for their job abandonment, and nothing further is really necessary.

But what if you want to email so there is a record of what was said?

They still deserve a phone call.

But you can certainly have someone else present for the call who can sign a witness statement as to what was said. Immediately after the call, just write a memo to their file, including the witness statement.

You could email it to the now-former employee if you wish, but leave out any personal feelings in it. You don’t want to come off as being unkind or rubbing salt in the wound.

Of course, if you are unable to reach them by phone, then email may be your only option.

Make it clear in your email that you tried reaching them several times, but you were unsuccessful. Just remember to keep it as kind as possible, professional, and on point.

How do you fire someone over the phone?

If firing an employee over the phone, have HR or another manager as a verbal witness to the call. Place the call on speakerphone so the witness can hear both sides of the conversation. Stick to the facts, making it clear why they are being fired, and avoid drama or allowing them to debate.

Ultimately by the time you decide to fire someone, assuming you’ve done your job correctly, the time for back-and-forth discussion has passed.

So the conversation needs to be short and sweet and just stick to the facts.

Here are the above steps in greater detail:

1. Keep HR in the loop

If you have an HR department, contact them and let them know what’s happening.

They can get with IT to make sure access to company systems is cut off, calculate severance pay and/or final pay, and get together any necessary paperwork.

2. Set a specific time with the employee for the call

Schedule a phone call or ideally, video conference, with the employee and make sure HR or at least 1 witness (someone in a leadership role) is present.

3. Let them know they are being fired at the start of the call

Lead with the bad news and be clear about your intentions.

The very first thing you say to the employee is that the company has decided to part ways. Chatting too much before the actual firing can be misleading and confusing.

You want it to be crystal clear that they are being fired.

4. Give a clear reason and site the violation as it pertains to your employee handbook or policies

Reference the reasoning behind the firing.

Whether they are being fired for excessive absences, violating company policy or any other reason, there should be documentation. While they will be disappointed and hurt, your employee should not be surprised that they are being let go.

There should be clear documentation both of the firing, but also for all the previous violations.

5. Don’t get bogged down in the details

Yes, you should give clear reasons for firing your employee, but the goal is not to make them feel worse. Be concise.

6. Be clear, but be quick

Don’t argue or give a long list of failures.

Answer questions, but don’t engage in any arguing. Repeat your reasoning and make it clear that their services are no longer needed.

After all, by the time you reach this stage the decision is made and the time for discussion has passed. Firing should be 10 minutes tops in most cases.

7. Do listen to feedback

Your employee is probably going to have some things to say. A certain amount of that is OK as long as it’s not just excuses or venting.

Listen to what they are saying and take heed, just not at great length. Maybe there is something you could’ve done differently throughout their employment. If there is, implement the appropriate changes.

8. Provide them with any necessary paperwork

There may be some COBRA paperwork or termination paperwork they need to sign. Email this to them as soon as the meeting concludes.

9. Be polite and gracious, even if they aren’t

Finally, thank them for their service. Don’t apologize, but provide some sort of indication that you would’ve liked for things to turn out differently. If they get ugly, avoid the urge to give it back to them.

Stay cool, professional, and polite and end the call quickly once everything has been said.

Final Thoughts

Firing people is one of the hardest parts of being a manager. It can be tricky to deliver the news.  You may want to do it via email or phone.

If at all possible, it’s best to deliver this kind of news in person.

However, sometimes is simply not possible. I’ve provided you with some tips on how to fire someone over the phone, if absolutely necessary.

An email should be used only in extreme situations when your employee simply isn’t responsive to your requests for a meeting.

With these tips, the process of firing an employee should be a relatively quick and painless, but respectful, experience.

 

Can You Fire an Employee for Being Sick? (No, but you can . . . )

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As a GM for 2+ decades, employees calling out sick was just a way of life. But many new managers wonder can you fire an employee for being sick.

No. You cannot fire an employee for being sick. But most employers have an attendance policy and instead would document unexcused absences over a period of time, and eventually fire them for excessive absenteeism, after a series of warnings.

But there’s a lot more to know about employees calling out sick and how you can legally discipline them for that.

So here, we’re getting into absenteeism and what constitutes excessive absenteeism. But we’ll also examine whether an employee can get fired for that and if so if there should be some sort of due process leading up to that.

And what if you are sick a lot and have to use PTO? Can they fire you even if you use PTO?

Click here to read my complete guide to PTO laws and the 1 way they could actually fire you for using it even if you are legitimately sick or on vacation.

As a leader for Whole Foods Market for over 2 decades, I learned a lot, saw a lot, made a number of mistakes, and learned from them too. I also, unfortunately, had to fire a lot of employees, many for excessive absenteeism.

So this is familiar territory. Let’s dive in!

What is excessive absenteeism?

Excessive absenteeism would be 3 more absences in a 30-day period, 5 or more in 6-months, or 10 or more in a 12-month period. But excessive absenteeism may vary from company to company.

But first, we need to understand what exactly is “excessive”.

This isn’t middle or high school and a doctor’s note doesn’t necessarily excuse an absence. It’s also important to understand that while an employer may be subject to state or federal laws, in many cases, it’s up to the employer to decide.

This is especially true in an “at-will” state.

An at-will state is a state in the US that basically allows employers to fire anyone for any reason at any time.

I go into a lot more details about what an at-will state is, including a state-by-state guide, in a recent article geared towards how to fire an employee with a bad attitude.

Just click the link to read it on my site.

Now, having said that, I firmly believe that employers have a moral obligation to be firm, fair, and consistent. And an obligation to make expectations and consequences crystal clear.

If you fire an employee and they are genuinely surprised, you failed as a leader.

First, you need to have a company policy guidebook in place which spells out all your company policies, including your attendance policy.

This should include what the correct procedure is for calling out sick as well as how many sick calls in a set period of time constitute excessive absenteeism.


When I was a leader for Whole Foods, we defined excessive absenteeism as the following:

  • 10 days absent (leaving early or arriving late beyond 30 minutes counts), consecutive or not, in any 12-month period
  • 3 or more absences in any 30-day period
  • 5 or more absences in any 6-month period

The national average for sick days is currently 9 per employee per year, so just under what Whole Foods would have found unacceptable.

But whatever policy you set for your company, have it apply to everyone (including yourself) and enforce it evenly and consistently. Double standards and hypocrites rarely make for successful businesses long-term.

If a boss does go to fire you, can they do that by phone or email?

Click here to read my complete guide to how terminations are supposed to happen and if phone or email is a legitimate way to do it, what happens if they break the law in doing it, and what your rights are as an employee.

How do you handle an employee with excessive absences?

I’m a firm believer in following a 3-step process for virtually all offenses except violence, harassment, and theft. Here are the 3 steps in handling an employee who is excessively absent:

  • Verbal warning – Start with a conversation, done in private where you alert the employee to the issue, remind them of the company policy, and remind them of the consequences. Document this after the fact for their file
  • Written warning – Once they cross another excessive absence threshold, issue a written warning for excessive absenteeism. Get it signed and witnessed
  • Final Warning – Again, once they cross another threshold of excessive absenteeism, issue a final written warning, also signed and witnessed. This should make it clear that the next instance will lead to termination

Next, have a monitoring system in place for everyone from the top down.

Ideally, don’t put this place in response to an employee problem; just have this tracking system in place as soon as possible; ideally from the beginning.

You can use a calendar, an Excel spreadsheet, or some sort of online program or app. Then have a tab for each employee and every time they are not at work when they normally would be, note which of the following categories that absence falls into:

  • Multi-day Vacation (approved in advance)
  • Approved Other Absence (they requested the day off for an appointment, ideally getting their shift covered)
  • FMLA Leave (Family Medical Leave Act Federally mandated leave)
  • Unexcused Absence – Any unplanned absence where they call out

Every time someone is absent, you record that absence. Then perhaps monthly, you review the logs of everyone and see if anyone has exceeded the attendance policy for your company for unexcused absences.

Can I terminate an employee for excessive absenteeism?

Yes. Employees who are excessively absent can be terminated. But have a set system for monitoring, documenting, and communicating about excessive absences, and ensure all employees, including yourself, follow the same rules.

But as much as possible, as the employer, you have to balance being human and being compassionate, with what’s best for the company and, more importantly, what’s best for the other employees.

After all, if you have 1 employee who calls out all the time, and the rest are rock solid, it’s putting a huge burden on those other great employees. So you have an obligation to deal with the absent employee, even if their reasons for constantly calling out seem “reasonable”.

Now, if they are a single mom I don’t want you to be heartless.

But if you constantly make exceptions for them, then figuring out how to determine (legally and morally) when to make exceptions for the rest of your team will become a full-time job. Making constant judgment calls will wear you out, demoralize your team, and ultimately kill your productivity.

So stick with being firm, fair, consistent while also being compassionate.

Ultimately, if you have a fair attendance policy and it’s made clear to everyone when you hire them, then if they aren’t meeting that policy and you’re communicating clearly when there are infractions, it’s 100% on them if you later have to fire them.

Just make sure that everyone on the team (yourself included) is held to the same standard.

Can you get fired for being sick with a doctor’s note?

Most employers would not fire an employee for being sick but instead would fire them for being excessively absent. A doctor’s note would not be a factor unless the employer was legally obligated to offer the employee a medical-related leave of absence.

In an at-will state, you can be fired at any time for any reason, although reputable employers will go through some sort of due process with performance issues.

Even if you’re not in an at-will state, if your absences are excessive (beyond the scope of what’s allowed in the employer’s attendance policy) you can still be fired. Whether or not you have a doctor’s note won’t factor into whether or not you have been excessively absent.

Now if you have an ongoing medical issue, you may be able to request an FMLA leave (Family Medical Leave Act). However, in order to be eligible and request an FMLA leave, the employer has to be what’s called a “covered employer”, which basically means they have 50 or more employees.

Then, you as the employee have to meet certain criteria such as:

  • You must have worked at least 1250 hours in the 12 months prior to requesting leave
  • Work at a location with 50+ employees, or within 75 miles of another location with 50+ employees
  • You have to have worked for the employer for at least 12 months

So if you just started or work for a small company with a handful of employees, the employer is NOT obligated to grant you an FMLA leave. That doesn’t mean they won’t grant you leave, and doesn’t mean they may not have options spelled out in their attendance policy.

But they aren’t Federally mandated to offer you a leave.

Can I sue my employer if I’m fired for being sick?

If the employer is guilty of wrongful termination, they can be sued by the employee. So if the termination was for illness, that would constitute wrongful termination. Excessive absenteeism that had been documented and addressed previously would not constitute wrongful termination.

In the US at least, unfortunately, anyone can sue anyone for pretty much any reason.

That doesn’t mean you’ll win or that your case has merit. But people file lawsuits every day. Ultimately, you’re not likely to be fired just for being sick. If you work for a reputable employer they may fire you for excessive absenteeism.

But ultimately you’re being fired for being unreliable and being a burden to your fellow employees; not because you’re sick.

And if the employer has done a proper job of creating an attendance policy, is consistent with all employees in enforcing that, and there is a clear written paper trail documenting your infractions, you will most likely lose the case.

This is even truer if you live in an at-will state.

In short, filing a lawsuit will cost you time and money and you’d be far better off putting that time, energy and money into finding a new job and owning your role in losing the previous one and learning the lessons from that experience.

How many sick days are reasonable?

The US Department of Labor has noted the following average number of sick days for employees in the US: 7 sick days per year with 1 to 5 years of service, 8 sick days per year with 5 to 10 years of service, 9 sick days per year with 20 years of service.

(source)

So, as you can see, somewhere between 7 and 9 sick days a year probably going to be considered reasonable by most employers.

“Reasonable” will be very different depending on the type of work. But also how many employees there are and how easy it is to get someone to cover your shift.

At Whole Foods, all the stores I worked in and ran had hundreds of employees. That made it easier to cover people who called out sick. A store with 4 employees would have a much harder time dealing with that.

What if you sometimes miss work because you work a 2nd job?

After all, in today’s economy, many of us work 2 or more jobs. And every once in a while schedule conflicts crop up. Click here to read my complete guide on having a 2nd job, whether an employer can fire you for having one, and whether you should lie about it or not.

Final Thoughts

In this article, we took a look at the world of employee absences.

All employers know what it’s like to deal with call outs. And all employees know what it’s like to have to take on additional work and responsibility when we’re shorthanded.

So today we explored the definition of excessive absenteeism and the right way for an employer to handle that. But we also explored how doctor’s notes might factor in and what’s reasonable on both sides.

Ultimately, we answered the question can you fire an employee for being sick?

Can You Fire an Employee for Gossiping?

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When you work in a place with a lot of other people, gossip is a natural by-product of that. While sometimes harmless, many wonder can you fire an employee for gossiping?

In at-will states, employers can fire anyone for any reason. But even in other states, gossip can be considered “creating a hostile work environment” and can lead to disciplinary action eventually leading to termination.

But there’s a lot more to know about gossip in the workplace and what, exactly, is an “at-will” state. So, in this article, we’ve got all the facts on gossip.

We’ll walk you through the reasons you can fire an employee for gossiping, why gossiping is so detrimental to the workplace, and how to solve a gossiping problem among employees.

Let’s talk about it (no gossiping involved)!

What exactly is gossiping?

Gossip can be anything from rumors to truth, to outright lies. Even if it’s true (like maybe your supervisor did have too much to drink at the company party), it’s still mean-spirited and not appropriate in the workplace.

In most cases, these things are spread behind the back of the person(s) the gossip is about.

It’s, unfortunately, an all too common occurrence in the workplace.

While sometimes it’s just intended to be funny (“did you see who so-and-so brought to the company party??”), it’s often mean-spirited. Sometimes it gets downright nasty and is intended to malign someone or even derail their career options.

I still recall a situation at one of the Whole Foods stores I used to work at in downtown Austin.

I had stopped working there in early September 2005.  About 6 weeks later, at a friend’s birthday party, I met the woman who would later become my wife (and still is). While she had worked at the store when I was there, she was one of the 650-ish employees in that store.

So in truth, while I had seen her, I didn’t even know her name when we officially met.

But a few people, really 1 in particular, decided that my girlfriend (now wife) was somehow doing well at work because of her association with me. She gossipped from one side of the store to the other, despite the fact that I didn’t even work there anymore and had no direct conversation with any of the leadership in that store (about her or anything else).

It was mean, distracting, and ultimately put my wife in the position of having to work extra hard to prove herself instead of just working.

Gossip is damaging to morale, takes its toll on productivity, and can be incredibly demoralizing to otherwise great employees.

Can I get fired for spreading rumors?

Gossip may seem like a small thing, but when it comes to the workplace, gossip can actually end careers.

Let’s take a look at if employers can fire employees for gossiping, why gossiping can be so detrimental to the workplace and reasons why employers may consider firing an employee for gossiping.

Because gossip has had so many detrimental effects both on people and the workplace as a whole, many employers have wondered if you can actually fire an employee for gossiping.

As it turns out, you can get fired for gossiping.

When we break it down, a lot of states and employers are what we call “at-will.” This means that employers can fire employees at will for any reason or for no reason, and with or even without notice.

So, when an employer is considering terminating an employee for gossiping if the employer is an “at-will” employer or is in an “at-will” state, they are within their rights to fire the gossiping employee.

Even if employers aren’t in an “at-will” state and even if they aren’t an “at-will” employer, they still may be within their rights to terminate an employee for gossiping. This is because of the detrimental and negative effects gossiping can have on the workplace and on employees in general.

Gossip is just one of several types of behaviors or actions that are the sign of a negative or bad attitude.

Reasons It’s Acceptable to Fire an Employee for Gossiping

It’s clearly acceptable to fire an employee for gossiping if an employer is an “at-will” employer or if an employer is in an “at-will” state.

However, there are more reasons why it may be acceptable to terminate an employee for gossiping.

First, gossiping can cause friction in the workplace. Friction in the workplace is, at its most basic, a disruption of everyone’s work.

It can be a verbal conflict, just a disruption, or even turn violent.

When these things arise, employers need to shut it down quickly. While that doesn’t usually mean firing someone without warning. It can lead to immediate dismissal if the gossip is severe, And it can lead to disciplinary action that eventually leads to being fired.

Gossiping in the workplace has a negative effect on morale and productivity.

And those are two things that are absolutely necessary for a business to run well. When gossip makes employee morale and productivity go down, an employer can decide to fire the employee causing it.

Lastly, gossiping can create a hostile work environment.

A hostile work environment is something that’s considered unacceptable for employers and supervisors. And if an employee is engaging in gossip that creates a hostile work environment, the employer can choose to fire them to dissolve the hostile work environment situation.

Why Gossiping is So Bad in the Workplace

Gossip has many detrimental effects on the workplace, even if it seems like something small that can’t affect anyone.

Okay, so what are some of the effects of gossip in the workplace? Why is it so negative in the workplace?

Let’s look at some of the main reasons:

1. Gossiping Breaks Down Trust

When gossiping happens, especially when it’s about things that aren’t confirmed (which it most often is), it breaks down the trust level among employees and employers.

When employees know other employees are gossiping, which often happens, it breaks down their trust of the other employees. It may also break down the trust between that employee and all the other employees involved in the gossip.

2. Gossip Can Be the Death of Teamwork

Trust among employees goes hand in hand with teamwork – and when employees don’t trust their coworkers, it’s harder for teamwork to happen.

Teamwork is a huge component that plays into the success of every business. Employees are more often than not part of a team, or the business itself is a team.

When employees and employers can’t work together, teamwork dissolves – and other bad consequences can follow.

3. Gossip Causes Conflict

When it comes down to it, gossip overall causes conflict. Sure, conflict in business and among employees can happen for a number of reasons.

The difference is, the conflict caused by gossip can snowball and affect every employee involved. Employees who have gossiped or been the victim of gossip can engage in conflict, and that conflict can turn into a hostile work environment – especially if the problem isn’t resolved.

4. Gossip Results in More Spending on Supervisors’ and Employers’ Time

Supervisors and employers have enough to do and handle as it is, but when gossip is involved, more of their time can be spent trying to resolve it.

The time supervisors and employers have to spend resolving issues with gossip could be better spent in other areas, like productivity and company morale.

Gossip and the problems it causes can also affect supervisors themselves. If supervisors have someone in a position higher than them, the supervisors may have to take the fall for any performance or morale issues their teams are experiencing due to gossip.

As you can see, gossip really affects every part of a business and everyone involved.

A bad attitude in an employee, while sometimes fixable, is usually something ingrained in them and unrelated to the job. In many cases, it’s virtually impossible for an employer to “fix” a bad attitude.

I go into a great amount of detail in a recent article about how to fire an employee with a bad attitude. There’s a right way to do that and a wrong way. The wrong way can lead to unemployment hearings and even poor morale among the remaining employees.

So definitely check that out as it’s something every employer will face eventually. Just click the link to read it on my site.

How to Get Rid of Workplace Gossip

Workplace gossip clearly comes with negative consequences. Sometimes those consequences are employees being fired.

However, it doesn’t always need to come to that.

There are some tips employers and employees can take to lessen and even get rid of workplace gossip so otherwise good employees don’t have to lose their jobs.

Let’s discuss those tips:

Enact a Zero Tolerance Policy

Employers can protect their businesses from the effects of gossip (including firing an employee) if they enact a zero-tolerance policy.

Zero tolerance policies show employees there are severe consequences if they participate in the activity with zero tolerance – and can prevent them from gossiping in the first place.

Encourage Positive Gossip

Wait, positive gossip? That’s right!

Gossip doesn’t always have to be negative. Employers and supervisors can encourage positive gossip among employees, which can lessen the effects of normal or negative gossip.

Positive gossip entails employees, employers and supervisors thinking of the great things they have done, like going out of their way to help a customer, getting a great sale, or anything that really positively affects the company.

Then, employees, employers, and supervisors can share those great things among others to start a chain of positive “gossip” with none of the bad consequences of normal or negative gossip.

Ignore the Gossiper

You may have heard the advice that when it comes to bullies if you ignore them and don’t give them a reaction, they’ll stop bullying.

The same can actually be true with gossipers. Gossipers often thrive on the attention and recognition they get from starting and participating in gossip.

Sometimes they spread negative things about others to make them feel better about themselves. Or they think it somehow makes others think more highly about them. (hint: it doesn’t)

If no reaction is given to the one who starts or engages in gossip, they’re very likely to stop.

Nothing is in it for them anymore! Ignoring the gossiper(s) is a great way to lessen and prevent gossip in the workplace as a whole.

Of course, employers shouldn’t ignore gossipers. As leaders, it’s our job to keep the peace and protect our employees. As employers get wind of gossip or otherwise negative behavior, we have an obligation to step in quickly, consistently, and firmly.

Final Thoughts

In this article, we took a look at the workplace environment and something everyone has unfortunately dealt with; gossip.

We looked at why it’s so bad for the environment in your store or company. But we also explored some solutions you can implement to possibly avoid having to fire anyone.

After all, it’s much easier to keep an otherwise good employee than it is to fire them and hire and train a new one. Specifically, though, we answered the question can you fire an employee for gossiping with the answer yes.

How to Fire an Employee With a Bad Attitude

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As a store or department manager, eventually, you have to reprimand or even fire someone. The worst of these situations often lead to us wondering how to fire an employee with a bad attitude.

For employees with a bad attitude, first, address the issue verbally. Then in written form, if no improvement is made. Give them a period of time to correct the behavior and have a follow-up meeting scheduled. If no improvement is made, issue a final warning, with termination being the outcome for no improvement.

But there’s a lot more to know about how to deal with bad attitudes and problem employees.

More importantly, we’ll get into the right and wrongs ways to deal with toxic employees. Done right, you can save yourself unemployment costs and hearings.

Let’s get started.

Employee issues in the workplace

Virtually all issues an employee might have can be separated into 2 categories:

  1. Poor Work Performance
  2. Policy Violations

The latter is a whole lot clearer. For example, if an employee steals, or is chronically late, or calling out sick beyond what your company policy allows for. Those are clear cut, not up for debate or interpretation. Either the employee did those things or did not.

Work performance issues, on the other hand, include a whole lot of things that are subjective, such as:

  • Slow work speed
  • Poor customer service
  • Creating a hostile work environment
  • Sloppy work
  • Having a bad attitude

While the policy violations are quick and easy to deal with, performance issues like a bad attitude are slow and messy to deal with.

How do you change an employee’s bad attitude?

You can’t make someone happy who isn’t happy. You can ensure they have a pleasant working environment. But beyond that, you can only address issues in the workplace that arise from an employee’s bad attitude.

But most of us in leadership roles have tried to help employees with bad attitudes.

It ends up being very time consuming and is very unlikely to change anything. In the end, you will find yourself spending a lot of time on this employee with a bad attitude.

When we spend a ton of time on those “squeaky wheels” we are, by default, NOT spending time with the productive and happy members of your team; the ones who are really driving the business forward instead of into the ground.

That’s not only not fair to the good people, but it’s counter-productive to the success of the business.

For starters, what a “bad attitude” is might mean different things to different people. It also requires some validation and corroboration, especially because a store manager may not work directly with this person and may not be seeing it first hand.

The other thing to know is that you can train virtually any employee with a good attitude to do anything. But it’s virtually impossible to train an employee to have a positive attitude unless it stems directly to some genuine mistreatment at work and you correct that.

How do you address an employee with an attitude problem?

Address an employee with a bad attitude by:

  • Focusing on how their behavior affects the workplace
  • Do not discuss their personal life
  • All discussions should be held privately
  • Potentially contentious discussions should have a witness; ideally someone from HR or leadership
  • After the initial conversation, if no improvement is seen, the next conversation should be documented
  • After the 1st written documentation, issue either a 2nd written warning or a final warning if no improvement is seen
  • After the final warning, termination would be the next step if no improvement is seen

Even though you’ll be unlikely to change an employee’s bad attitude, it’s not right to just fire them without any sort of due process.

Everyone has the capacity to change.

But unfortunately, as my old friend who was high up in HR at Whole Foods used to say “there’s no better predictor of future behavior than past behavior“.

So even though you aren’t likely to turn them around, it’s crucial for the overall health of your workforce, and from a legal standpoint, to go through the steps and do this the right way.

After all, all your good employees know this person is a problem. But if you just fire them outright, it sends a message even to the good employees that they too could be fired at any time for any reason.

You don’t want your employees afraid of you.

So this is the process I followed for virtually ANY performance issue with any employee. Your company may have different rules or systems. It’s also possible the state or country you live in may have different rules.

When in doubt always consult someone in HR in your company or a labor law attorney.


But this how I handled employees with a bad attitude:

1. I started with a verbal 1-on-1 conversation

This conversation, like all HR-related conversations, would be private and not held on the sales floor or in front of their peers.

I would address the issue, but mostly ask questions. I find asking questions, rather than making accusations or statements, puts people more at ease and more likely to talk about what’s really going on.

Make no mistake.

In 99% of the cases, a bad attitude has NOTHING to do with you or the job. It’s something going on in their life on a personal level and they haven’t dealt with it. But as leaders and managers, we can’t ask them about their personal life or make personal recommendations (at least in any official capacity).

At the end of the conversation, make it clear what has been observed (but do not name any names of their peers who may have reported it to you). Then make it clear what the consequences will be if it happens again (and it will).

2. I would issue the 1st written warning

When an issue arises again, now is the time to take it more seriously.

Again in private, but this time with a witness who is in a leadership or HR role. As a matter of course, always position yourself and any official witnesses such that you are not blocking the exit to the room where the discussion is being held.

The employee must never feel like they are being held or unable to leave if they wish. Of course, if they were to leave before being dismissed, that too is a violation that will need to be addressed.

This conversation should be shorter and less casual.

You let them know what was observed, that it’s unacceptable, and what the complete process looks like if they continue the behavior. Do give them the opportunity to explain their side of the story, and to write it down if they choose.

But limit the amount of time you give them for this as these types of people can often go one and on wasting everyone’s time.

In the end, they will sign the written warning as will you and the witness. If they refuse to sign (which is their right) you would note that on the form and still sign yourself with your witness.

3. I would issue a 2nd written warning

This would be issued exactly like the first one.

4. I would issue a final written warning

Like the previous two warnings, but this one should be clear that the next instance will result in immediate termination. The form would ideally indicate this as well, very clearly.

Make sure to keep copies of all documents in case the employee files for unemployment after you fire them. In most states, employees can file for unemployment for any reason.

That doesn’t mean they’ll get it, but the burden of proof will be on you, not them. So have a system where these documents are easily accessible.

I preferred to keep a paper copy in a locked file cabinet but also a scanned copy on my computer. But your company and HR department may have different systems or policies.

5. I would fire them

Firing should be short.

The time for discussion has passed; it’s not up for debate, interpretation, or opinion. You speak, they listen. Stay calm and cool; never yell or raise your voice (even if they do).

Again, have a witness present and document the firing on paper with all persons ideally signing the form.

You state the facts very clearly and logically without emotion: “on this day, you did this, and as we discussed in your previous warnings, the result of this behavior is termination. You are now terminated from this position.”

Ask them to turn in any work items they may have in their possession. If they have a locker in a personal area, escort them to their locker and then see them to a public area.

If they make any sort of a scene ask them to leave immediately and if they refuse, call the police. You never want to escalate anything yourself or do anything other employees may witness that is anything less than 100% calm and professional.

If you follow all these steps, however, the employee will in no way be surprised they are being fired. And if that’s true, they are unlikely to make too big of a scene.

That’s usually reserved for when we, as store managers, didn’t clearly follow this process and the firing came as a surprise.

Can you get fired for a bad attitude?

In short, yes.

That doesn’t mean you can legally be fired on the spot. But generally, many employers have policies against what they call “creating a hostile work environment”. Now if an employee is just a little grumpy, or walks around like Eyeore, that probably doesn’t meet the test of that.

Most companies would be more likely to classify as bad attitude as being:

  • Backtalking supervisors
  • Gossiping about other’s personal information designed to embarrass, create animosity or discredit someone else
  • Verbally harassing others
  • Yelling or raising their voice to others
  • Using profanity directed at others

In those cases, while still following a series of disciplinary steps, an employee could definitely be fired.

What are the legal reasons to fire an employee?

At-will states have laws that basically say that the employer can fire an employee at any time for any reason without legal liability. That doesn’t mean the employee can’t file for and possibly get unemployment compensation, but it would prevent the employee from suing for wrongful termination.

But this depends, assuming you’re in the US, on whether you live in what’s called an At-Will state or not.

Of course, if you’re needing advice in this area, always consult a labor law attorney.

Technically all states are at-will, but some have exceptions that others don’t have. So it doesn’t make sense just to list the at-will states.

Many states have laws on the books that state if the employer has a policy or handbook which specifies why an employee can be terminated, then that is legally binding.

Here, however, is a list of states that DON’T recognize that:

  • Delaware
  • Florida
  • Georgia
  • Indiana
  • Louisiana
  • Massachusetts
  • Missouri
  • Montana
  • North Carolina
  • Pennsylvania
  • Rhode Island
  • Texas
  • Virginia

Then we have some states with a public policy exception.

Normally, for instance, an employer cannot fire someone who files a worker’s comp claim after they get injured on the job.

These states, however, do NOT recognize that right:

  • Alabama
  • Florida
  • Georgia
  • Louisiana
  • Nebraska
  • New York
  • Rhode Island

As I pointed out above, virtually all employee issues fall into either policy violation or poor work performance. In either case, typically following some due process most companies have in place, you can be fired for any of those reasons.

It’s worth pointing out, however, that if you’re working for an ethical employer, they are not just going to fire you for no reason with no warning. And if you do get fired from an unethical company, count yourself lucky you didn’t work there longer.

What qualifies as wrongful termination?

Wrongful termination is when you were fired illegally. Where an employer violated either state or federal law when they terminated the employee.

Wrongful termination, plain and simple is NOT when you think you shouldn’t have been fired. It’s also not when you feel you were fired unfairly.

As an example, if an employer fired someone on the basis of their race, gender, ethnic background, religion, or disability.

As it stands now, while there could be state protections, there is no Federal protection on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity.

Another illegal reason to fire someone is if they are a whistleblower or have filed a legal complaint against the employer. You also can’t be fired in most states (see the section above) for filing a worker’s compensation claim following an injury.

In other words, the employer cannot retaliate against an employee operating within legal guidelines.

Now on the one hand, if I were fired due to one of those reasons I wouldn’t want to work for those people anyway, and I’d count myself lucky to be rid of them.

But it’s also not right that they get away with it either. At this point, you would definitely want to hire a labor law attorney to see if your claim of wrongful termination has merit.

Final Thoughts

In this article, we took a look at the world of HR and running stores. We examined what is often every store or department manager’s least favorite task; firing someone.

Toxic employees with a bad attitude are a reality that hits every kind of business.

In a way, it’s the worst kind of offense as it’s not as black and white as stealing or harassment. But dealing with employees with a bad attitude can be a huge time suck, so it’s crucial for all the great employees you have to not let it fester.

So here, we explored how to fire an employee with a bad attitude. And more importantly, how to do it in the right way so it’s fair to everyone and keeps you out of hot water with your company’s HR department and the state unemployment office.